tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post2242507148091445333..comments2023-11-05T02:21:11.529-08:00Comments on Pay Tray: a blog commenter's blog: Some Relatively New Boom-Bappy Realness That Doesn't Suck (As Improbable As That Might Seem)Asherhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comBlogger18125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-3614652415156076542008-11-18T10:41:00.000-08:002008-11-18T10:41:00.000-08:00it's also a problem that boston has like 3 good ra...it's also a problem that boston has like 3 good rappers ever (and not much of a critical eye for good rap talent) so termanology just sounds like he's copying another city's style, which he is.bding7https://www.blogger.com/profile/06968707799455497982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-17261450903049620222008-11-17T17:15:00.000-08:002008-11-17T17:15:00.000-08:00I... think the Killa Sha album that Robbie was plu...I... think the Killa Sha album that Robbie was plugging way back sounds like it could've been made in '94, as do parts of that P Brothers. Termanology, no, not so much. Part of it's this self-conscious "we're bringing the old sound back" vibe that hangs over the whole project, part of it's that Premo obviously isn't what he was back in '94, nor is Large Professor - all I can say is it's damn hard to put your finger on. You know, it's like the difference between Godfather III and Godfather II. Yeah, a ton of it is the bad acting, idiotic story, all sorts of identifiable factors, but if you go rent Godfather III and take any given minute in that movie, even parts where Coppola's daughter isn't making a fool of herself or Pacino isn't overacting, you can just feel that the whole thing has turned into a parody of itself. And some people see that, others don't.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-62238282958006835582008-11-17T16:47:00.000-08:002008-11-17T16:47:00.000-08:00My fault, I should qualified it: the quarter-note ...My fault, I should qualified it: the quarter-note continuous hi-hat. I agree, the continuous hi-hat is also a staple of Southern rap, but it's that quarter-note-sixteenth-note switch that wraps around the back of each few bars.<BR/><BR/>I'm more of a subscriber to the everything's-mainstream-popularity-eventually-dies-out theory. Take the Termanology album. Sure, it sounds like it could have been made in 1994, but it's still really good; unlike Large Pro's latest, which just sounds dated, period.<BR/><BR/>I'll agree that someone like KRS-One, going around saying "if you're not making the boom-bap, you're not making real hip-hop" is not really fair to most rap artists (KRS-One: the Hip-Hop Bill Cosby...?), but I also think producers just need to have an ear for what does and doesn't sound dated. Like Doc said, Black Milk is proof that great modern boom-bap is still possible. <BR/><BR/>My girl's complaint is that all the music from boom-bap's classic era sounds the same to her. <BR/><BR/>But for someone like me, who has that itch to always be looking for the sample no one else has found, I felt the same way she did about almost every single song on "The Recession" except for 'Circulate.'Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-74859389846575052232008-11-17T14:00:00.000-08:002008-11-17T14:00:00.000-08:00I'm kinda more in the "everything dies out eventua...I'm kinda more in the "everything dies out eventually" school. Why this is the case is a bit of a mystery, but history teaches us that it's true. Look at any art form you like, any given movement gets stale after a while.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-67403444894467173052008-11-17T13:23:00.000-08:002008-11-17T13:23:00.000-08:00"as well as remove the continuous hi-hat, a staple..."as well as remove the continuous hi-hat, a staple of boom-bap in almost all its forms."<BR/><BR/>but the hi hat is also a staple of southern rap, and someone like pimp c or t mixx is not boom-bap.<BR/><BR/>i think it's partly the sound, but mostly the approach of boom-bap, which can be reactionary a lot of times, that led to its downfall. tray touched on this with lupe and termanology, so i won't beat a dead horse.bding7https://www.blogger.com/profile/06968707799455497982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-59888895519164817872008-11-17T11:00:00.000-08:002008-11-17T11:00:00.000-08:00When it comes to popular hip-hop, I tend to view t...When it comes to popular hip-hop, I tend to view the mainstream audience through the filter of my girlfriend. When I'm making beats and playing them back, I watch for her to bob her head. And it's largely the more-synthetic beats that get her going. The melody doesn't seem to be as important as the crispness and deepness of the drums.<BR/><BR/>If I have a beat that uses a natural drum loop from back in the day, it usually doesn't do it for her.<BR/><BR/>And while extrapolating that to the whole mainstream hip-hop audience is certainly not scientifically accurate, I think it's one of the things that has helped to define the decline of boom-bap, however a person might define it.<BR/><BR/>Dilla and Madlib, to some extent I think, recognized that and began to take those natural drums and warp their sound even further, as well as remove the continuous hi-hat, a staple of boom-bap in almost all its forms.<BR/><BR/>Jesus, it's almost 2'o'clock... I gotta get back to work.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-8818351337072061162008-11-16T22:46:00.000-08:002008-11-16T22:46:00.000-08:00"Am I your Tom Breihan or something? That would be..."Am I your Tom Breihan or something? That would be utterly apropos in a way."<BR/><BR/>No, you're all my Tom Breihan (especially Breihan). I think you're typical of one strand of opinion, one which I'm not quite in agreement with - though of course, my favorite albums probably look a whole lot like yours, minus the Eminem - Breihan's typical of another, one which I'm totally in disagreement with, though I think he's spot on on, say, Cam or <I>The Inspiration</I>, Brandon's general outlook is another I reject, and the same goes for a lot of others. I think I'm closest to noz on stuff, though I'm probably a lot more pessimistic on hip-hop's future and down on hip-hop's present than he is.<BR/><BR/>About mixtapes, I have to disagree. It isn't at all that I'm a fan of the ones that get all the press, or don't think that they don't have something of a harmful effect on rappers' ultimate output. But I do find that, for instance, to the extent that great New York rap lives on at all, it's mostly in the mixtape. Jada and Styles's mixtapes, to take one example, top any album they'll ever put out. And for good reason - they don't feel the need to include a poor pop single, they don't need a song with Mariah Carey, and they can rap over way, way better beats than they can necessarily afford or even have made anymore. That is, you can take a 'Return of the Crooklyn Dodgers' instrumental and rap on that. If you go to Premo today, he's just not capable of making you a 'Return of The Crooklyn Dodgers' quality beat anymore, and neither are his stylistic heirs, frankly. You would admit, of course, that many of the best album tracks we hear nowadays are just recyclings of old beats. Ghost rapping over 'Please Listen to My Demo' and 'Know the Ledge.' Jim Jones rapping over 'Boyz N The Hood.' Z-Ro rapping over 'Paid In Full.' Da Bridge 2001. Surely you wouldn't say, "if I wanted to hear someone rap over Please Listen To My Demo, I'd get out my copy of Unfinished Business." No, you liked The Big Doe Rehab, and if I'm not mistaken, you specifically liked that track. What's the difference then? A mixtape is just 'Killer Lipstick' times 20, usually minus the annoying Method Man hook that makes it a "song." You see my point. Are mixtapes "original pieces of art"? It just seems like the wrong question to be asking. Rap's about originality, but it's not about that type of originality.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-75415309414818941502008-11-16T22:06:00.000-08:002008-11-16T22:06:00.000-08:00Am I your Tom Breihan or something? That would be ...Am I your Tom Breihan or something? That would be utterly apropos in a way.<BR/><BR/>I think the mass of boring ass boring rappers doing half-assed Common on Resurrection impressions over bootleg Dilla has given you a bad impression of the modern boom bap sound. That sound isn't inherently played. There are just a lot of hacks doing it, running around thinking they are breath of fresh air because they aren't making "Crank That." <BR/><BR/>I mean hell the presence of Elzhi and Black Milk alone prove that you can still make great boom bap in 2008.<BR/><BR/>For the record, my disdain for mixtapes is primarily based on taking other people's shit and rhyming over it while a DJ yells in the background and calling that akin to an original piece of art. If you can make a swath of original material in mixtape form and release it for free over the internet than you get props otherwise, I'm profoundly bored by the entire experience. If I wanted to listen to somebody rap over "Daytona 500" I would get out my copy of Ironman.DocZeushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16167201486110098029noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-90752771865700518422008-11-15T23:06:00.000-08:002008-11-15T23:06:00.000-08:00I mean...a) I didn't grow up blasting Mostly Tha V...I mean...<BR/><BR/>a) I didn't grow up blasting Mostly Tha Voice, but that was the sort of thing I started listening to when I started listening to rap - I just don't think there's a 2008 version of Mostly Tha Voice, just as, like, attempts to bring back the 50s black and white noir flick are total folly (see The Good German and The Man Who Wasn't There - terrible movies)<BR/><BR/>b) I really, really wouldn't call what Madlib does boom bap. Like, it has samples. And that's about the size of the similarity. Like, Kanye circa College Dropout and Pete Rock are a lot closer than Madlib and Premo. The P Brothers are really good from what I've heard so far. But isn't that more some kind of Havoc/El-P/RZA on Liquid Swords hybrid? I may be defining boom bap way more narrowly than you, but to me it's a kind of spare, bass-drum/vicious snare heavy affair, epitomized by people like Premo and Marley Marl. Now Havoc had boom bap drums, but he also got kinda horror movie with it. EL-P got really horror movie with it, and so do these dudes. So.... yeah, but Black Milk is definitely boom bap. And I'm not a huge fan.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-70898225542276495612008-11-15T22:45:00.000-08:002008-11-15T22:45:00.000-08:00It's probably an ages/eras thing. The same parents...It's probably an ages/eras thing. The same parents who grew up on Dylan and The Byrds see nothing to like in Panic! at the Disco (let's be honest though, there IS nothing to like about Panic! at the Disco, so bad example...), heads that grew up blasting "Mostly Tha Voice" and "Come Clean" see very little value in "Donk."<BR/><BR/>I'm not disparaging Soulja Boy's business strategy. By all means, get paper. Just don't act like it's a) intelligent, b) good or c) anything BUT a business strategy. And DAMN SURE don't expect me to take it seriously or actually buy it.<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, regional variants on the boom-bap aesthetic (Dilla and Black Milk's Detroit sound, Madlib's loping West Coast version, the P Brothers 'The Gas') have comprised some of the highest-quality hip-hop releases of 2008.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-14722321732991085732008-11-15T16:08:00.000-08:002008-11-15T16:08:00.000-08:00Typically, the only way to get a lot of comments i...Typically, the only way to get a lot of comments is to respond to them. I'm bad at this--shit just takes up a lot of time.Passion of the Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05668987173360877915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-76890335790878696252008-11-14T13:39:00.000-08:002008-11-14T13:39:00.000-08:00I don't want to be the blogger whose comment secti...I don't want to be the blogger whose comment section is half comments by him, but it's an honor, sir.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-82040340771549310032008-11-14T09:27:00.000-08:002008-11-14T09:27:00.000-08:00Good to see you back to blogging. I can't wait for...Good to see you back to blogging. I can't wait for the inevitable Zeus/Tray flame war. It'll be fun...<BR/><BR/>I still think your blog's name should be Forgot about Tray.Passion of the Weisshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05668987173360877915noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-84133237167503076322008-11-13T11:03:00.000-08:002008-11-13T11:03:00.000-08:00I actually always hated Skillz, seemed like a flaw...I actually always hated Skillz, seemed like a flawed attempt to reach a wider audience. And the hook really bothers me for some reason.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-41873980328693585522008-11-12T21:12:00.000-08:002008-11-12T21:12:00.000-08:00you never mentioned "Skillz," which has an obvious...you never mentioned "Skillz," which has an obvious topic, but i think is one of the better songs on the album.<BR/><BR/>jadakiss' verse was great, thanks for reminding me of that song.bding7https://www.blogger.com/profile/06968707799455497982noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-85172625989767847962008-11-12T13:37:00.000-08:002008-11-12T13:37:00.000-08:00If you don't like Gang Starr, I don't see why you ...If you don't like Gang Starr, I don't see why you should bother with what's, objectively speaking, only their fourth or fifth best album (though you could definitely argue it's their most accessible, so if the drier stuff turned you off on the past, you may like this better). Although you should definitely hear Rite Where You Stand, that's probably the best thing on the record. I'm very pro-boom bap, but I just think the aesthetic's spent.Asherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06495408546806192092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-56812263307897407942008-11-12T10:44:00.000-08:002008-11-12T10:44:00.000-08:00also: "....the argument for the continued relevanc...also: "....the argument for the continued relevance of boom bap is a lot more convincing when it's yoked to some sort of politics or ethic than when it's simply put forth as an aesthetic preference for scratched hooks over what Guru calls "Tinkerbell beats."<BR/><BR/>You don't think there's room for boom bap aesthetic these days? I guess I never separated politics or social or economic roots from the boom-bap sound - i mean i know its raw, relatively-minimalist music that people like premo would argue is the very reflection of the ghetto essence, but I usually dont pay the most attention to the sociocultural history and implications of the sound. I just view it as an alternative aesthetic to the polished production of today - just gutter in sound. <BR/><BR/>and judging from your comments over at doc zeus', about rap preserving the classic cowboy Westerns notion of masculinity, I'd assume you were pro-the rugged boom bap sound.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5672551757871310685.post-69688921539509656932008-11-12T10:24:00.000-08:002008-11-12T10:24:00.000-08:00Ayy, welcome back. I haven't heard this album....Ayy, welcome back. I haven't heard this album. Should I? Keep in mind, I'm not a Gangstarr fanboy, even on their best days. Since hate is far too strong a word, I'm gonna say I dont feel Guru's monotone all that much. He's a decent lyricist and all, but something doesnt click for me when he starts rapping. Premo, on the other hand, even though I'm not the biggest fan of boom bap, I can totally love & appreciate. <BR/><BR/>maybe its fueled by pharrell and like-minded producers of this day and age hogging so much camera time, but I have a great amount of respect for a great producer who can keep a low screen profile. <BR/><BR/>And premo's outbursts? priceless. its not that there's quality in the outburst, but there's the great novelty factor of hearing a mime-like character speak - its sorta like when silent bob opens his mouth, and you go whaaa?? what about this freaking moment compelled you to open your trap??Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com